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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">To paraphrase the Economist article you
link to, which I think says it all (below) "No." <br>
<br>
I'm not an expert on this particular case, but I'm able to read,
and what I read below does not match people's insistence on
constantly bringing it up as an example of US Economic Espionage.
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jf@ownco.net">jf@ownco.net</a> says it better in this thread than I can, but
apparently people need to hear it over and over again for some
reason. <br>
<br>
-dave<br>
<br>
<br>
_________________________________<br>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 15px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;
font-size: 1.5rem; vertical-align: baseline; background-color:
transparent; line-height: 2.3rem; font-weight: normal;
font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(74, 74, 74);
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial
initial;">"""<br>
According to a European Parliament report, published in 2001,
America's National Security Agency (<span class="scaps"
style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size:
15px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent;
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat:
initial initial;">NSA</span>) intercepted faxes and phone
calls between Airbus, Saudi Arabian Airlines and the Saudi
government in early 1994. The<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="scaps" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;
font-size: 15px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color:
transparent; background-position: initial initial;
background-repeat: initial initial;">NSA</span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>found that Airbus agents
were offering bribes to a Saudi official to secure a lion's
share for Airbus in modernising Saudi Arabian Airlines' fleet.
The planes were in a $6 billion deal that Edouard Balladur,
France's then prime minister, had hoped to clinch on a visit to
see King Fahd in January 1994. He went home empty-handed.</p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 15px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;
font-size: 1.5rem; vertical-align: baseline; background-color:
transparent; line-height: 2.3rem; font-weight: normal;
font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(74, 74, 74);
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial
initial;">James Woolsey, then director of the Central
Intelligence Agency, recounted in a newspaper article in 2000
how the American government typically reacted to intelligence of
this sort. “When we have caught you [Europeans]...we go to the
government you're bribing and tell its officials that we don't
take kindly to such corruption,” he wrote. Apparently this (and
a direct sales pitch from Bill Clinton to King Fahd) swung the
aircraft part of the deal Boeing's and McDonnell Douglas's way.<br>
"""<br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/26/2013 8:24 PM, Adam Crosby wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:29099D1A-6AA6-4834-856A-2872F46B8F27@uptill3.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">To suggest its impossible seems to fly in the face of what has happened (see NSA and Boeing/Airbus).
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.economist.com/node/1842124">http://www.economist.com/node/1842124</a>
I'm not saying its anything like the Chinese deal, but the NSA is involved in US companies economic health.
--
Adam
On Jun 26, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Dave Aitel <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dave@immunityinc.com"><dave@immunityinc.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2013-06/26/content_16659265.htm">http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2013-06/26/content_16659265.htm</a>
Normally I don't like to stick my toe in the neutron star's gravity well that is the NSA-Snowden discussion. But it's important to point out that there are developing standards of behavior being negotiated not between China and the US, but between corporations and governments as a whole.
Chinese media has been going on for a week about how the Snowden PRISM revelations about the US hacking China are in some way equitable to the US complaints about Chinese government sponsored hacking for the purposes of economic espionage. This is pure public relations nonsense. The complaints US industry has about Chinese state sponsored hacking is not that it is occurring, but that the fruits of the hacking are being given directly to Chinese companies which compete with US (or European, or Korean, etc.) companies.
It is impossible as a US company to go to the NSA and say "Hey, my competitor in China makes a pretty nice bulldozer, can I have the plans to that? Also it'd be nice to know what their bid is on that contract in Malaysia we both want to win."
It's just that simple. Company's hate being forced to give information to their governments, or trojan their networking equipment (in the case of Huawei and ZTE). It's bad for business. Especially when you get caught or it gets leaked (which it ALWAYS does one way or the other).
But they hate state-sponsored economic espionage more and I hardly think Chinese companies would enjoy a change in Washington's tune that allowed US companies to employ the full power of the NSA against them.
-dave
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